A number of people have asked me what happened at the Petitions Committee when Carl Sargeant, the Minister with responsible for Transport came to give evidence the other day. I have listed below the relevant part of the transcript from the National Assembly’s Website.
The National Assembly for Wales
The Petitions Committee – Tuesday, 10 January 2012
| 205] Russell George: Yes. First, may I say that Mr Saady’s views are probably those of the minority in mid Wales. Indeed, one petition had a few hundred signatures and one had more than 5,000. So, although we are looking at the two together, the vast majority of people support the bypass. However, I think that Mr Saady’s views are also valid because some of his ideas need to be adopted as well as the bypass. That is worth pointing out as well. Obviously, the Newtown bypass has been subject to continuous delays since it was first put in the trunk road forward programme. I think that people will now want a timetable for that programme and to know when the construction phase will start. It would be useful if you could outline that. Most importantly, the many thousands of people who signed the petition probably want to know when the first car will drive onto that new bypass. That is the bottom line. If he could detail a timetable, I would appreciate that.
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| 10.45 a.m.
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| [206] Carl Sargeant: You will be aware of the reprioritisation within the national transport plan regarding my actions on the Newtown bypass. The provisional start date for publication of the orders is in that proposal, which is 2012-13. Beyond that, it would be wrong of me to make any further discussion points on the Newtown bypass, on the basis that I have made my decision to pursue this proposal and have indicated when I will be laying the orders for discussion. Subject to the detail of the letter that you have there, all residents and all people will have the opportunity, subject to a public inquiry and publishing the orders, to express their views in either direction. From that, I will make a decision on the scheme, subject to a public inquiry, without prejudice. I do not want to be accused of prejudicing my decision at this early stage. My commitment to the scheme has been clearly mapped out in the national transport plan.
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| [207] William Powell: Thank you for setting out the context of the procedure that we need to follow. Colleagues have areas that they want to pursue, but it may be safer to move on to the other issue—which we have considered for some time—of petition P-02-162. It is about road safety concerns on the A40 in Llanspyddid, just outside Brecon. Bethan, I believe that you want to lead on this—
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| [208] Russell George: Sorry, Chair, are we going back to the Newtown issue? There were some other questions—
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| [209] Carl Sargeant: On the Newtown bypass, I have made my decision-making process for the future clear. I would not want to compromise that. I am happy, subject to some of your questions, to discuss issues around the other petition that you have on traffic congestion and the roundabout.
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| [210] William Powell: Sorry, I misinterpreted and was being overcautious. Joyce, you have the green light to go back to planning.
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| [211] Joyce Watson: It is the red lights that are stopping the traffic. [Laughter.]
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| [212] Happy new year, Minister. You issued a letter dated 29 July last year, saying that discussions with residents and other observations suggest that the new signalling system in the town is working well. Could you elaborate on that?
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| [213] Carl Sargeant: I would like to think that I operate in an open and transparent manner, and that when we get things wrong, we should say so. When the lights were installed, they were not working effectively. I asked my team to look at that closely. We remodelled and—what is the technical term for what you do to the lights to realign them?
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| [214] Mr Davies: Recalibrate.
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| [215] Carl Sargeant: The lights have been recalibrated. We believe that there has been a marked difference in the way that traffic flows through Newtown. However, we also believe that the Newtown bypass solution would bring enhanced benefits to the Newtown area. Subject to my decision, we believe that there would be ongoing benefits to a Newtown bypass—should it happen—and that it will have a direct effect on that junction and the traffic flow through Newtown. We recognise that there was an issue with the lights, but we believe that we have recalibrated them and that there is now an easing of traffic flow through the town.
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| [216] William Powell: To take that a step further, you have indicated that a before-and-after study has been undertaken, comparing past and current congestion levels. Is that study around the recalibration exercise that you have just mentioned?
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| [217] Carl Sargeant: Yes, the modelling study is ongoing, and once we have that data, we will do some scenario simulation, with regard to the computerised signalisation of traffic lights and roundabouts, to see whether any benefit analysis can be taken from the data. I suggest, Chair, that we need a little more time to ensure that we are able to find the right solution, which may be in place after the computerised modelling study. Anecdotally, we have heard arguments from both sides of the fence, with some people saying that the situation is worse, while others are saying that it is better. I want to think that we operate statistically, and so, when I have that modelling study data, I will be happy to share some of it with the committee. I will make my decision on whether we should move to a different style of junction or continue with the current junction, but I will base that decision on the statistical data that I receive from my department.
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| [218] William Powell: It would be helpful for our consideration of both of these petitions to have those data as soon as possible.
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| [219] Russell George: I appreciate your honesty, Minister, about the fact that the new SCOOT system that was introduced is not working as expected. People will appreciate your honesty about that. We are grateful that you will provide that before-and-after study information to the committee to consider once it has been finalised. When you look at that statistical information, will you consider the real feeling that people are avoiding the town and using other routes? So, in looking at that modelling study, please take into account that, yes, traffic has eased, but that it might be as a result of people using other routes. I am pleased that you mentioned that you would be prepared to re-examine that junction. Will you comment on whether you would be prepared to consider putting a trial roundabout back in place—and I say ‘trial’ because that would not involve any great expense—given the feeling that the traffic problems in Newtown were considerably worse after the roundabout was removed? Will you confirm that you will at least consider putting a trial roundabout back in place?
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| [220] Carl Sargeant: I can assure the committee and the Member that, if I believe that congestion could be considerably eased by way of a different model, I will seriously consider an alternative method of providing a different style of junction—whether that be a temporary roundabout or otherwise. What I will not do is pre-empt the statistics that are coming through, because while you suggest that it would not be too expensive, there will be an expense, and I will not act on anecdotal evidence that it would be better. I will base my decision on fact. However, I will seriously consider and pursue any better alternatives.
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| [221] Russell George: When do you expect the before-and-after study to be available to us?
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| [222] Carl Sargeant: I imagine that the data will be completed by next month. We have just had Christmas, when traffic flows are different, so I want to get a complete package that will better inform us on the right decisions as to whether we should or should not make any changes. The expense that could be incurred on the back of a potential bypass solution for Newtown must also be taken into consideration. I am more than happy to share the data with the committee, subject to them being robust and complete. So, when I have the data, I will share them with you. |
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